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« Whither Canada? | Main | Does anyone in Eugene know what happened to Rose Nunez? »

Tuesday, 05 April 2005

Comments

I. LOVE. IT.

Personally, though, I think the bullet should be a .45, and the name should be something along the lines of the "45/??? (I don't know offhand what the second designation would be, something like 200 or so?) American" or something like that...

No reason why we can't have both a 10mm and a .45 version now, is there...

It's all about the diversity...

Sounds like somebody needs to give Lazzeroni a call.

This is right up his alley. Your talking about a guy who chambers a 6.5mm bullet in a 300 win mag case, at up to 4300fps; and a 10mm bullet in the same case for up to 3000fps.

I don't suppose you know his e-mail address?

update: got it! I e-mailed Lazzeroni and Barrett both.

I like it! Keep it coming, GB!

Hmmmm. I got a consulting contract from someone who owns a gun company. I'd go with a 30 caliber myself. I wonder how much the twist would need to be changed.

Two problems.

The first is you has me interested until you started talking about a different case (cause of the primer pocket). If handloaders are anything it's cheap..er, economical. If you could offer them surplus brass to form the cases from then it'd sell. Buying fresh brass? Nope. Too pricey.

But the main problem I have is the idea behind it. Work around the gun grabbers? That's the wrong attitude. That's like saying (in the mid 70's) "when the soviets take over we'll set up secret signs to let each other know we're free". A much better tactic would be to stop them cold. We can do it (if we can get the NRA off their compromising asses) & we can go on the offensive (i.e. start pushign for repeals). But not if we're already spending time & effort into thinking how to "work around" the next ban. It's not just conceding to the enemy, it's putting our resources into conceding when we could still fight them off.

Hey, far be it from me to discourage anyone from trying to improve our cartridge selection, but do it cause you want a new toy to play with, not because you think it'll teach the gun grabbers a lesson. We can put the gun grabbers on the run. We can do this by pushing hard for repeals of various gun laws. Politically we shoudl put our efforts into that rather than working out what to do when we get more gun control.

Want to play with a neat wildcat? Then let's push for a repeal of GCA of '68. Then we can see what a necked up .50 BMG case (say to .60 caliber) will do with a 1,000 grain bullet (I'm thinking around 1800 fps).

I agree with Publicola's points, but would like to add that the best way to win a war is to attack on multiple fronts. We ABSOLUTELY need groups like the NRA and conservative politicians to tackle the issue head on. But if we can also attack the gun grabbers from another angle, an angle that doesn't draw resources away from our front line political soldiers, then we drain the gun lobby all the faster.

And Publicola, check out the Barrett XM-109! That might be exactly what you want.

oh yeah, cost:

the primer issue makes reloading (not to be confused with handloading) the .50 BMG expensive. A new case that is otherwise identical except for using a shotgun primer would probably actually be cheaper, especially after a huge release of new factory-loaded ammo.

Well, there's already the .404 Cheyenne Tactical, which is supposedly ballistically superior to the .50BMG, but it's based on the .505 Jeffery African cartridge, I believe. The .404 Chey-Tac is a true 10mm/.40 caliber round, but the projectiles (right now) are custom lathe-turned peices for the most part.

There's a .50 Spotter round that is smaller than the .50BMG and has similar ballistics to the 105 recoilles rifle round (it was used as a spotting round for that projectile.) I know those cases are sold surplus, so I assume someone loads them for some wildcat firearm.

I don't know why the .404 Chey-Tac people chose the Jeffery case over the .50BMG. It might have been for the primer pocket size.

First, I side with Publicola. Rights are rights, maintain a "no compromise" position. Line in the sand and all that.

While we're doing that, if we want to create new cartridge/caliber combinations, why not? Personally, I think a 20MM case shortened an inch and necked down to .338 might make a nifty varmint cartridge. For large varmints, of course.

There is already a .510DTC Europa that is one millimeter shorter than the .50BMG but has the same case volume.

I am hoping that Barrett etc. will chamber and sell their weapons in this developed chambering.

I'm starting to get the impression that some people think everything that isn't big game is a varmint.

Not that there's anything wrong with that... ;-)

Beaten to the punch

Wildcatting the .50 is a neat idea, but from what I know there are already wildcats of the .50 out there. I can't recall the name but I know there is one .50 wildcat designed for greater accuracy that uses .50 match bullets and a modified .50 BMG case.

And as for other high power options especially those that get around .50 BMG bans, rather than .50 wildcats I like the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge and the SSK industries .50 Peacekeeper cartridge. Supposedly the .50 Peacekeeper drives a standard .50 caliber bullet at a velocity only 300 fps less than the standard .50 BMG but using a rifle action no larger than an elephant gun. And the .338 is very powerful, very accurate, and available in the inexpensive AR-30 rifle which has a massive recoil brake that supposedly reduces the pounding .338 down to less than the recoil of a standard weight .308 rifle

one other idea for getting around .50 BMG bans

Why not use the Soviet 12.7mm heavy machinegun cartridge? From what little data I have on hand, it appears to use identical diameter bullets to the .50 BMG and the case size is very slightly larger. I bet an existing .50 BMG barrel could get chamber reamed and it would then fit the Soviet 12.7mm cartridge with no problem.

Since the .50 BMG ban laws seem to very directly attack the .50 BMG cartridge using definitions that only fit the .50 BMG cartridge, using the Soviet 12.7mm HMG cartridge would bypass the law.

And what about cost? I bet there are mountains of Soviet 12.7mm ammo floating around the world. A huge untapped resource of cheap imported ammo yet to be exploited.

Why limit ourselves? Why not do all of the above? As for the Soviet 12.7mm... why is that liberals want us to import every idea the Communists ever had, except for how to build inexpensive but highly useful weaponry?

So Sorry - Whooops. Been there, done that.

See Guns and Ammo, about 1973, the .44 - 50 Jug. Skeeter Skelton, 50 BMG, necked to .44, long heavy 44 bullet, in a Single Action HANDGUN.

Quadruple load (that means 4 types of powder, in order, for you rookies) Earschplittenloudenboomer from hell.

As always, Skeeter beat us...

Yes, people have experimented with this stuff before... but that's only part of the battle. We need to A) use new technology especially with powders and barrel metallurgy to get the most out of the case, B) turn it into factory loads for the masses and to promote a surplus of brass for handloaders, and C) create a work-around for potential gun bans to confound the enemy while the NRA attacks them on the legal front.

That is a real problem. Note that I am not the one most gung ho on the notion of taking it down to .30 caliber... I personally think taking it down to .375, which creates about one and a half times the internal barrel volume using the same barrel length--that's a hell of a lot better in terms of bore capacity. But still, I do think it could be done. It would take an extremely long barrel, though, and barrel life would be short--working up a good load might take up most of your barrel life. Still--given the newest in both powder and barrel technology, why not try it?

Does anyone know about the ceramic "artificial diamond" coating technology used on the most expensive chef's knives? Could it be applied to rifle barrels?

I don't have the dimensions in front of me now, but I have read of a round called the .460 Steyr. It is a 50BMG case shortened a few mm, and necked down to .458 dia.
No further info.

I am thinking 50BMG Ackley Improved and shoot lighter bullets. Futher refinements would inevitably follow.
Like maybe aluminum bullets in a copper jacket.(really long) Or hollow bullets shaped like a football.(no drag)<>

Loose the 50 case and use a 10,000 PSI scuba tank to make it an air rifle. Then it won't come under "fire"arm laws!

i know just enough about guns to say some of you guys have the right idea and know just enough to admit that i am just a greenhorn . we all want more powder, more speed, and over more distance and with less inaccuracey and without causing the bullet to com tumbling out of the barrel or damage the rifling . a smaller bullet something like a 7mm or my familys favorite model 70, 300 Winchester or evan down to 6mm are the perfect size to necked down to with a larger case to back them up would make the best hunting rifle for at least 20 years and some one if can find me a 300win case necked down to a 6 or 7mm or somthing close to it, that would me so happy i would seriously consider naming my second born son after you

I have a friend with a XP-100 chambered in a 35 Rem. necked to .338. It is called something with "Jones" in it. Does anyone have any loading info on it?

I have a friend with a XP-100 chambered in a 35 Rem. necked to .338. It is called something with "Jones" in it. Does anyone have any loading info on it?

The big fifty has been modified extensively and with SOME succeess... .50 Ackly Improved, 338/50 Talbot, etc. The sacrifice has always been barrel life. Comes with the territory for "snipers" but just not acceptable for serious long-range hunter/varminters, who want a gun that you can sight in and forget. Constant rebarreling and breaking in of ones hunting rifle is a hassle most will avoid. The solution? Take a clue from Browning's genius, not his product. Look to newer rounds for inspiration and scale these up like Browning did to get the .50 from the .30-06. My suggestion? the 6mmbr. Takes 1000yard matches left and right. Most importantly, LONG barrel life, due in part to a geometry that allows more of the powder to burn in the chamber, not in the barrel.

I'm thinking of a .50 BMG necked down to a 10mm firing a .30 sabot. Just thinking.

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