Watch this, and pass it on to everyone you know, regardless of political affiliation:
Joe has submitted one video to YouTube. Joe sounds a lot like a PR company, hired by a Oil company or organization of oil companies. He doesn't sound like the Joe I know - the one who knows that drilling new domestic oil wells in pristine national wilderness areas won't lower the price of his gas any bit, won't make us more energy independent (only getting off oil itself will), and won't create a significant amount of blue collar jobs that are long lasting for him or his friends.
This Joe realizes he won't change this blogger's thinking, but here at least is some fodder for your next rant.
the real joe |
Friday, 04 July 2008 at 10:41 AM
Wow ... "the real joe" sounds like a dipwad! I don't care who came up with Joe American's 4-point plan ... but it sounds like a win-win to me!
It will be interesting to see if either candidate bothers to pay attention and "come up" with this or something similar ... or whether it will remain the same ole nuthin'.
Saturday, 05 July 2008 at 11:02 PM
That "lovely pristine wilderness" is a bunch of rock and high desert. Get a grip. You can drive along the highway in Alaska and have to look for the pipeline. So how do you figure that we are going to mar this empty wilderness? We have the technology.
Offshore oil drilling? Well you can see offshore in Florida where the oil rigs from Cuba are drilling for a communist country. OMG, are you a communist too? The "people" don't want offshore drilling? The people want an energy plan. Something with real options to it.
I agree with Joe, this looks line a win-win situation if the 2 Houses can get off their butts and quit worrying about their next election and working for a real future.
Sunday, 06 July 2008 at 12:09 AM
the left thinks anyone who supports actually producing energy is either a shill for big oil, or a brainwashed zombie who only listens to Rush and FOX news. I guess they think the electricity for their internet connection comes from the magic pixie dusts of hope and change.
Sunday, 06 July 2008 at 08:04 PM
way to refute points, subsequent commenters!
the real joe |
Friday, 11 July 2008 at 10:08 AM
OK, how about this:
"that drilling new domestic oil wells in pristine national wilderness areas won't lower the price of his gas any bit, won't make us more energy independent (only getting off oil itself will), and won't create a significant amount of blue collar jobs that are long lasting for him or his friends"
Drilling new wells will absolutely lower the price of gas. There is this thing called "supply and demand" that impacts prices. As supplies increase, prices drop. Prices are up now because demand is greater than supply. When supply is greater than demand, prices drop. More drilling means more oil. More oil means more gas. More gas means less competition to buy it. Less competition to buy means people don't have to bid so high. You know, lower prices. Also, drilling today means a lower future value in oil, because long term investors realize that part of the cost of oil is hedging bets that later in the future, supplies will be even lower and demand will be even higher. So people invest in oil futures today figuring oil will sell for more tomorrow. That means higher demand. That means higher prices. Show investors a promise of increased supplies in the future, and today's demand drops. Less demand means fewer people bidding up the price. You know, lower prices.
Increasing our domestic supplies means having to purchase less oil from foreign suppliers. You know, reducing our demand on foreign oil. That means making us more energy independent. As in, needing less energy from external sources. And notice that Joe American doesn't say to just drill today and run out of oil later. He says to drill today to give us the needed supplies now to give us more time to implement other energy sources like wind and nuclear power. You know, other energy sources that reduce our dependence on oil, foreign or otherwise. You know, energy independence.
As for jobs, are you kidding me? First, drilling for more oil means thousands of new jobs immediately in the drilling operation itself. Thousands more come in the distribution of oil. The Alaska Pipeline construction project employed many thousands of blue collar workers for many years. Of course, the REAL impact on jobs comes from the overall economic growth that will result from lower energy costs. With cheaper energy domestically, it will suddenly make more sense to open new factories here rather than go overseas to nations with subsidized energy. Consumers will have more money to spend, creating demand for more goods and services. More demand means more potential to create jobs to meet demands. You know, more jobs. Jobs for blue collar folks who make things.
You must REALLY be a simpleton not to see these truths.
Friday, 11 July 2008 at 08:43 PM
speaking of simplistic, the argument that the price of oil being higher than ever at the moment is due to supply and demand is bunk: it's due to market speculation in oil futures and the low dollar (low why? ask the Bush folks - it's lost 50% of it's value since his tenure!). counterpoint refuted.
Jobs created in the remote parts of the country, where every day Joe will have to relocate and drive serious gas money to get to initially, compare poorly (and WILL run out, and are as non-sustainable as oil itself) as jobs that might be created by our investing and creating incentives for sustainable energy sources. There are far more jobs to be created in the manufacture of photovoltaics, generators for wind power, technicians to install and maintain these systems, and in future engineering research and efficiency development of these technologies than will be created in a last dash to some oil oasis outpost. Counterpoint refuted.
continuing to rely on oil now is like an alcoholic saying "i just need one more drink to make it through the work day, but i'm quitting tomorrow" - get real, energy independence doesn't start with more drilling, it means investment and incentives for alternatives NOW, without these types of distractions that won't amount to a Joe's cup of coffee at the end of the day, in terms of quantitative oil contribution to our overall national consumption. counterpoint refuted.
btw, i like how i had to pry out an actual attempt at a thought out response here, and how you had to result to outright insult ("simpleton"! how creative!) in your response. pure genius sir.
the real joe |
Thursday, 17 July 2008 at 07:16 PM
No one is saying that drilling for more oil is the only solution, or a long term solution. If you read what others are writing and listen to Joe in the video, you will learn that new oil drilling is only one facet of a larger plan.
Drilling increases supplies and lowers oil prices. At the SAME TIME, investment in alternative energy sources ensures energy in the future. But you can't afford to invest in unproven alternatives that are more expensive (today) than oil... unless you can increase revenues so much that there is plenty of additional funding for energy speculation.
And investing in alternatives IS speculation - no one can say for certain that tomorrow wind or solar will cost less or be more abundant than any other energy source. And I'm not just talking oil. Everyone could invest trillions into wind and solar only to find out tomorrow that there is some previously unforeseen problem with the technology, or that all of a sudden some engineer might discover a DIFFERENT energy source that makes the trillions spent on wind and solar a complete waste. Or, while not highly probable, it is POSSIBLE that Ted Kennedy might found out there is a trillion barrel oil field under the sand on his beach house (and you can bet suddenly he would be open to new drilling).
So admit that all energy investment is speculation! And you can't afford to speculate unless you have money to spare. Where do you GET the money to spare?
FROM DRILLING MORE NOW!
More oil means lower prices means more money left over means better economy.
Yes, the DIRECT jobs created by ANWR drilling are often in Alaska and not in Detroit. But the INDIRECT jobs will be in Detroit and everywhere else because investors will have MONEY to INVEST. General Motors will start making more Hummers. That means jobs (UNION JOBS!) in Detroit. Plastic becomes cheaper (plastic is made from oil, you know) and that means more manufacturing jobs EVERYWHERE.
And, of course, more money in the economy means more people can afford to invest in those wind and solar projects you are talking about... projects that (SURPRISE!) we AGREE will be good for everyone, but require the capital for investment... capital that comes from the economic boom associated with increased oil production.
Now, you can either agree with all this, in which case we will forget your previous ignorance and welcome you into the flock of "total energy package" scholars, or you can continue to deny the need for more oil. If you fall into the latter camp, then there is no hope for you. It is obvious that solving our energy problems and improving our economy are NOT what you really care about. Instead, it will be clear that your REAL goal isn't American energy independece but America's downfall.
We NEED oil to maintain our status as a world power. Without oil, we quickly become an irrelevant player on the world stage. We become France. Actually, we won't even be THAT good, as France at least is willing to use nuclear energy for its power needs. So we become Belgium. Is that what you want? Do you want America to be just like Belgium? If that's the case, how about a plane ticket instead?
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 10:06 AM
Oh, and I do give you credit for spotting the dollar problem. But it is not news to us. Real conservatives have been angry with federal government (Republican AND democrat) for running up massive debts and deflating the dollar.
So what is YOUR solution? I hope it is cutting back on pork spending, reigning in the earmarks, and stopping the outsourcing of credit to banks in China. You know, things John McCain is talking about. I hope it is NOT taxing the rich, crippling the economy, and borrowing even more money to pay for even more government spending, like the democrats all seem to support.
And please note that the last 18 months have seen the worst drop in the dollar. Who has had control of the purse strings since then? Not Bush. Remember, it is the CONGRESS that controls the money (although I will grant you that Bush shares some culpability as he has been weak with his veto pen).
Sounds like we need to flush out ALL the incumbents and get some REAL change... just not the "change" a certain campaign is spouting, as socialism has already been tried with poor results across the globe. REAL change is trying something NEW, not falling back on already known failures.
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 10:13 AM
"the argument that the price of oil being higher than ever at the moment is due to supply and demand is bunk: it's due to market speculation in oil futures and the low dollar"
Well, as you read above, I already talked about the weak dollar. And, if you scroll back up some more, you will see I also already addressed speculation.
Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME, SHALL WE?
Speculation means betting that a commodity is worth more in the future, so you buy up stocks today to sell for a profit later. Buying up stocks today is DEMAND for the commodity. As in, SUPPLY AND DEMAND. That drives up today's prices. A promise of increased future supplies means speculators will not want to risk today's money on future values. That means no demand from speculators. Less demand. That means LOWER PRICES.
Even a Simpleton should recognize this. But I guess the Simpleton doesn't really care about solving the energy problem or ensuring American energy security in an uncertain world. No, it seems like the Simpleton really just wants to run down America.
According to the Roaming Gnome, we can set you up with a one-way flight from NYC to Brussels for under a grand. I'll bet I can raise that online if you agree to leave now and never come back...
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 10:27 AM
You are much too kind. In NY, we'd simply kick his rump and prepare the concrete overshoes.
Ticket to Brussels? How about job clearing minefields in Kosovo?
Al Czervic |
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 02:05 PM
Yes, it's probably he's espousing a plan developed by energy company employees with advanced degrees and years of experience (as opposed to some unemployed, undegreed latte sipping stoner or self promoting idiot politician) so he can't possibly have anything valid to say.
Ted Kennedy's Liver |
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 07:32 PM
"The real joe" is representative of the same mindset that maintains that the high price of crude oil futures is caused entirely by speculators AND that opening up closed areas for drilling will have no effect on prices for ten years.
If you are so economically illiterate that you can't see the obvious contradictions in those two points, then I'm not going to bother to explain it to you except to point out that when President Bush repealed the executive order banning offshore drilling (a completely symbolic gesture) oil futures dropped $15 (or 11%) in three days.
Tim Lyman |
Friday, 18 July 2008 at 07:38 PM
We actually found Joe American and interviewed him. He is not an actor, not a PR company, not with an oil company either.But he is passionate about energy!
Eric Graves |
Tuesday, 19 August 2008 at 07:54 AM
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